Beyond the Human Podcast Explores Sasquatch Research with Mike Maize

There's something about a 3:15 a.m. encounter on a flat stretch of East Texas road that just hits different, and that's exactly where this interview kicks off. Over on the YouTube channel Beyond the Human, hosts Chris and Ryan sit down with Michael Mayes, former chairman of the board for the North American Wood Ape Conservancy (NAWAC) and author of *Valley of the Apes: The Search for Sasquatch in Area X*, for a fascinating conversation that covers everything from a jaw-dropping roadside sighting to the groundbreaking methodology that set NAWAC apart from other research groups. The encounter story alone is worth tuning in for. Michael describes being out around 3:15 a.m. with a buddy, riding in a quiet little Mazda Protege (definitely not the typical research vehicle, but as he points out, the stealth actually worked in their favor). His friend suddenly slammed on the brakes hard enough to rock them both forward, and there it was — something standing in the road about 30 to 40 yards out. The headlights caught it from a slight downward angle, illuminating the figure from the waist down. Michael describes the coloring as similar to dead pine straw — that brownish-orange tint you see in the East Texas Piney Woods, which would make perfect camouflage sense in that environment. The upper body and head appeared almost as a silhouette against the night sky. Then, in a moment that will give any researcher chills, the figure took a deliberate side step with its right foot, brought its left foot across, and Michael clearly saw the hair on the arm as it moved. Two steps total, and then it hopped over a bar ditch and vanished into the darkness. No drama, no rush — just a calm, purposeful exit. But the interview goes much deeper than that single encounter. Michael grew up in the Piney Woods region of East Texas during the 1970s, which, as any longtime follower of this subject knows, was a golden era for Sasquatch in pop culture. He mentions watching *The Six Million Man*, the Saturday morning serial *Bigfoot and Wild Boy*, and of course *The Legend of Boggy Creek* — the 1972 film that practically put the Fouke, Arkansas area on the map and inspired a generation of researchers. Life got busy, as it does, and his interest took a backseat until a speaker from the Texas Bigfoot Research Conservancy showed up at one of his outdoor club meetings and reignited the spark. What makes this conversation especially compelling for anyone who's followed NAWAC's work is the deep dive into their research methodology. Michael explains how the group evolved from being "weekend warriors" — the typical pattern of cramming as much fieldwork as possible into a long weekend — into something far more sophisticated. One of their members, Travis Lawrence, proposed a theory that would change everything: if these beings are hardwired to understand that humans come and go, all they have to do is sit tight and wait out short visits. But what happens when humans don't leave? What happens when researchers establish a continuous presence for weeks or even months at a time? That question led to NAWAC's signature approach: rotating teams of three or four researchers staying in the field for a week at a time, being relieved by the next team, creating an unbroken human presence in their area of interest for months on end. It's a methodology that, as the hosts point out from an anthropological perspective, mirrors how primatologists study elusive great apes — you have to be in the field long enough for your subjects to habituate to your presence. NAWAC operated primarily in the Ouachita Mountains of eastern Oklahoma and the surrounding region, and their long-term studies ran for well over a decade. Michael also touches on the composition of their research teams, noting that while many members were experienced hunters who knew how to read the woods, track, and interpret what they were seeing on thermal equipment, the group also included doctors, teachers, accountants, and professionals from all walks of life. That diversity of backgrounds, combined with the patience of their long-term methodology, made NAWAC one of the most respected organizations in the field. The Piney Woods connection is worth highlighting too. This region of East Texas, with its dense pine forests, bayous, and thick undergrowth, has long been considered prime habitat, and Michael's firsthand account adds another credible data point to the growing body of witness reports from that area. The coloring he describes — that dead pine straw brown — is exactly the kind of detail that makes a sighting report valuable to researchers trying to understand regional variations in appearance. For anyone interested in Sasquatch research methodology, witness testimony from the Piney Woods, or just a great conversation with someone who's spent years in the field, this interview is absolutely worth your time. Chris and Ryan ask thoughtful questions from their anthropological perspective, and Michael brings decades of experience and some genuinely compelling stories to the table. Check it out on the Beyond the Human channel — you won't want to miss it.